This week, I’m joined by Garrett Sussman as we reflect on his highly valuable Whiteboard Friday episode: "Optimizing for AI Overviews." This topic is more important than ever as we learn more about the impact of AI on the search industry. 

This week, we look at Google AI Mode, query fan-out, AI search in e-commerce, local SEO, and where we stand on the age-old "Is SEO Dead?" debate. Change is currently happening at a startling rate, so let's not hang about, join us as we revisit the past to understand the present and speculate on the future. 

Back in 2024, it felt that the Search Generative Experience, which became AI Overviews, was a knee-jerk reaction from Google eager to respond to the release and adoption of ChatGPT by just about everyone. 

 "Initially, they [AI Overviews] rolled out all over the place; they got all sorts of really controversial, AI-generated results, they got a lot of bad press, and they rolled it way back, like all the way to 1% of queries. Now, over time, I do anticipate them rolling out more, but right now, it's not there."

In the 12 months since Garrett suggested this in his previous Whiteboard Friday, AI Overviews have indeed expanded significantly, now appearing for around 50% of queries, depending on what you’re searching for. And recent reports show them conceding position 1 to organic. Garrett views AIOs as training wheels for Google’s AI Mode, which he anticipates will eventually become the default search experience.

While mathematical vectors in search have been highlighted previously, our current understanding introduces the "query fan-out" mechanism, based on research by Mike King, who has delved into Google's patents, and work by Rich Sanger. This is a more sophisticated and dynamic way Google processes queries for AI Overviews and AI Mode, moving beyond a simple relevance comparison.

In his 2024 Whiteboard Friday, Garrett explored the early inner workings of AIOs: "The reality of it is it doesn't seem to actually use the normal, organic search algorithm. It's been tested for the past year and is in the wild, and it seems to only consider relevance. Google understands words in mathematics. Every word has a mathematical value. It takes your query and compares it to passages that have the same relevant content mathematical value."

Garrett elaborated on the current "query fan-out" mechanism, which, according to our current understanding, dramatically changes our view of AI in search.

"Google, using Gemini 2.5, is now taking your query and creating a slew of synthetic queries that fan out across related queries, predictive queries—like what do we think is going to be the next query in the journey—and complementary queries." 

As a brand, you still need to create content that aligns with your customers' values. As Garrett puts it: 

"It’s really difficult to navigate that line of being comprehensive, covering everything, speaking to the machines, but also really being a brand that your consumers are like YES, they are authorities. I want to give them all my money or attention."

The landscape is still very volatile, with content being created without a clear view of future outcomes. So, what can we focus on? Brand and memories. Coca-Cola, for example, has done an incredible job of associating its brand with positive memories, making consumers more likely to pick their product first due to that positive association.

According to Garrett, AI Overviews for local search are "still garbage," and not much has changed since 2024. The same core concepts reign supreme in Local SEO: proximity, relevance, and prominence.

In 2024, Garrett noted that while the concepts of Local AIOs were simple, the quality of results was poor or incorrect. In 2025, this remains true, with examples of the same law firm showing up multiple times. Content is fed into the local experience from various sources, including Reddit, forum reviews, and Google Business Profiles.

In 2025, the advice remains the same: maintain consistency and accuracy for the knowledge graph for a local business, specifically through your Google business profile, making sure there are no gaps in information. Ensure there are no gaps in information, and that your merchant feed is thoroughly covered with attributes, shipping options, sale details, and so on. Crucially, encourage and maintain your business's online reputation with reviews. And if you're focusing on AI Overviews, then aim to gradually increase your positive Google reviews, over Yelp, Facebook or Trip Advisor. 

“Reviews are one of the next most important pieces of content and marketing initiatives that you should have in place for a local business."

Google is making significant progress with e-commerce, driven by years of competition with Amazon and perhaps motivated by the OpenAI Shopify partnership, Garrett highlighted a recent Google I/O demo: "We saw some demos during Google I/O showing a completely more comprehensive shopping experience with a whole range of carousels and grids and the ability to try clothes on to ultimately purchase products within AI Mode."

While e-commerce in AI Overviews doesn't seem fully fleshed out at the moment, it's likely to change dramatically with AI Mode showcasing a richer, interactive experience. 

"With e-commerce, there is still an opportunity there regardless of AI Overviews and AI Mode becuase people are still ultimately trying to buy products...It's never been more funneled towards your business."

While not addressed specifically in the original Whiteboard Friday, the SEO is Dead narrative is always bubbling in SEO. Garrett’s perspective in 2025 is that: 

“SEO is not dead. SEO is very much more of a branding channel than a pure performance channel. People are still choosing products. People are still doing their research. And your responsibility is to find ways to be visible. It has a positive association with your brand, so you're ultimately selected.”

Google will likely remain the dominant search giant for the time being, though every marketer should be monitoring traffic from LLMs like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini as viable channels where their audience might be present. Search will continue to evolve in many ways, big and small, and we need to keep up.

Garrett also mentions that the possible impact of Instagram photos and videos being indexed and available in SERPs will usher in another change, shifting marketing spend and focus in ways outside the AIO/AI Mode conversation.

As we all stand poised for more change in search, why not join in the fun and snag a ticket to MozCon 2025 so we can speculate more IRL. 

• MozCon London, Tuesday, August 12, 2025: Snag your limited early bird ticket!
• MozCon New York, Thursday, November 6, 2025: Snag your ticket!